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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.15 23:18:00 -
[1]
Liang for President!
Seriously Furb,
I've never let a cloaker, afk or otherwise prevent me from doing what I want to do in 0.0 space.
I never lost a ratting ship, never lost a hulk on my alt account, never lost a hauler.
Rat with a PvP capable ship and my 0.0 rule #1, never fly alone. Have friends close that can help in a pinch.
Half the time I was hungry for a kill so I would purposely rat in a juicy target ship and bait the cloakers to take a shot at me. Knowing full well I could either tank their damage or tank it long enough for my friends to arrive.
The only person stopping you from doing what you want in 0.0 is yourself.
Cloaking is fine, What you need is an anti-cowardice module to cope.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:44:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 17/12/2009 18:44:32
 Quote:
You really should learn how to fit a bomber. If you attack low resist of a BS (in this case explosive vs domi with eanm + DC), you can easily kill him before 5 bonussed ligth drones do more than tickle you.
Maybe you really need to learn how to fit a battleship. Most bombers can run around 13K Alpha with a bomb and then they are down to around +-600 DPS. A PvE battleship should be able to field a tank that can sustain more than 600 DPS. If you can't, that is your fault, not the games or other players.
Quote:
Edit: Since he want around 1km/s i assume he had AB fitted, and slow speed at which his shields went down i assume a medium shield extender. dunno how exactly he did it, but then i am not a SB pilot. Fact stays that 5 warriors with good skills didnt do **** against him.
5 Warrior II's should pop a bomber in less than 30 seconds, half that time for a dominix's warrior II's. Looks to me like you need to whine less and train more.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.17 19:36:00 -
[3]
That is your problem then. You aren't in your high sec safety zone anymore. You are in 0.0 where people drool at the chance to take down a poorly tanked ratter or mission runner. You fit your mission ship to the proper resistence of each mission right? Fine tune it for optimal tank/DPS for the mission? You have to do the same thing in 0.0 except you need to factor in the risk of being attacked by a player. Now you know that bombers can do +-600 dps, fit your tank accordingly. It is no one elses fault but your own.
Whats next? You are going to complain that a Heavy Dictor caught you at a gate and thats unfair because you were webbed and bubbled too far from the gate? Going to complain that someone scanned down your mission or anomoly and came in and killed you? Want to nerf Scan probes now?
You say you can make just as much money in highsec, then stay in highsec. 0.0 is for people who like to fight other people and we fit our ships for that task. Don't cry like a little girl because your precious carebearing is getting interupted by pvpers and I wont complain that there aren't any carebears to kill in 0.0 anymore. You are like an old Yankee that comes down south and tries to tell everyone how you do it up north. We dont care.
The fact remains, You tanked for rats, not for players. A player killed you... get over it.
Doesn't matter if it was a bomber or a Battlecruiser, you lost and are looking to blame a game mechanic for your loss instead of manning up and adjusting your fit and playstyle to compensate.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:28:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Furb Killer
However the point was that a hound has no problem at all killing an armor tanked ratting BS including eanm+DC (assuming of course it isnt in angel space).
You act like an EANM and a Damage Control is some amazing tank that should withstand a ship designed to do high damage to a battleship. What other tanking modules did you have? Did the bomber use a bomb to start?
You think cloaking is still the issue?
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Furb Killer
I wasnt talking about that you should be able to survive a few hits from the SB, which is also why i fitted that eanm + DC in the first place (which saved my ass). But that is what? Like 200 dps tanked on explosive? (really too lazy to find out).
That is still 0 tanked DPS if you dont have a means of repping. All you are doing is cutting his DPS by 56.3% (Shield) 42.6%(Armor) 60%(Hull) which means he is still dealing in the area of 300 DPS to your ship throughout the fight. Which, if you care to check, would mean it is going to take a damage optimized Hound about 45-50 seconds to down a Dominix, meanwhile 5x Warrior II's only take 15 seconds to down a hound.
If thats all the tank you are running... well.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:50:00 -
[6]
He hasnt mentioned one, just that he had an EANM and DCU equipped. You've seen some WTF fits that show up on killboards, never take anything for granted.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.17 22:06:00 -
[7]
that sounds about right.
MSE gives a hound like 3.5K ehp, and 4 Unbonused Warrior II's is only like 60ish DPS. The AB really shouldn't have much if any impact due to the warrior II's speed, even an MWD wouldn't help really.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mrtankk
Even if you have a PVP gang ready and roaring to go, when that bomber uncloaks, and launches his bomb, he will be WELL away from scram range of ANYONE. He will be aligned. He will launch his bomb and be in warp in UNDER a second. With no chance for a deffending gang ( even if you COULD get some people willing to sit bored as hell while you mine ) to even touch him. Cloak in warp, safe spot, go AFK to eat, take a shower, read a book, screw your g/f ( or man in some cases ) come back, rinse, repeat.
In the above scenario, it will be IMPOSSIBLE to catch said AFK cloaker, he has absolutley zero risk in ANY way shape or form.
Futhermore, with the way system upgrades work now, it is detrimental to mine in any system that you dont currently control and have upgrades in. So.
So, here is what I would like someone to explain.
How could a hulk survive such a scenario? And how could you counter it for the hulk TO survive? I challange you to find an answer, because there isnt one. You either.
a.) dont mine.
b.) mine and die.
There is no C.
Hulks can survive (a) bomb quite easily. The bomber has to launch missiles too and depending on the hulk pilot/setup wait for a second volley.
Tackle Ceptors can easily warp disrupt at 30km range which is bomb range, and they are fast, so they can be on top of a bomber who is outside scram range in less than a second. If the Bomber escapes, good for him, he is doing his hit and run guerilla tactics properly. But it isn't likely he will escape a tackle inty that is paying attention.
Hulks optimized for best ratio of mining yield and tank can withstand a bomb and first volley from a bomber. Which means the bomber either hangs out for a second volley and gets caught, or tries to warp out before being caught and the hulk survives.
Like almost every scenario in EvE... it comes down to the fittings of each ship.
Did you fit for rats or bombs? Did the bomber fit for DPS or Alpha?
Did the Inty fit a sensorbooster or faction Disruptor?
Truth of the matter is, Hulks are safe from a 1 shot wonder... its those haulers ferrying the ore back and forth to stations that are the weak link in your industrial chain.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.23 05:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Clone 231B
Enjoy borderline exploit gameplay while you can.
We've been enjoying it for years... what new information leads you to believe it will be changed anytime soon?
I killed an AFK cloaker once. We were playing station games with war targets and a falcon warped in at range to jam me. Jam missed so his buddy docked up and he cloaked. I just slowboated my battleship 100km towards where he had cloaked up and by pure luck I uncovered him. He must have been afk or he would have moved when I was getting close.
So there is a counter to AFK cloakers... find the dumb ones.
Seriously though,
Cloaking is nothing new. Just about everyone uses a cloak for some reason or another. Some people (like me) enjoy the backstabbing thief class in games and that is what a bomber is. I can hide in enemy strongholds and wait for the opportune moment to strike a soft target. It is a valid playstyle that is employed in a multitude of games and real military conflicts around the world, why shouldn't it be allowed to exist here?
That said, it would be kinda neat to have a module/scanner that picks up the warp signature of ships and can follow them to where the warp trial ends (like most spaceship movies/shows have). You wouldn't be able to detect the ship, but you'd know where it's warp signature ended and if you get lucky, they didn't fly very far from that point.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.25 01:51:00 -
[10]
Not to derail this awesome nerd rage argument going on, but I just checked my kill stats and found that I've killed just as many "Cloaking" ships as I have cruisers, or Battlecruisers, or frigates or Heavy assault ships.
For a breed of ships (recons/covops/bombers/blackops) that are supposed to be so hard to find and kill, it would seem they are easier to kill than Interceptors according to my kill stats.
For fun, check your kill stats and see how many "cloaking" ships you have killed versus conventional ships.
I did get most of my kills using Inty/Bomber though.
As for the arguement, I've said my piece in previous postings here. I never had any trouble with AFK cloakers in 0.0 because well... they are AFK. And the ones that aren't AFK can't hurt my ships before help arrives or I kill them myself. Tank more.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.25 02:01:00 -
[11]
lol
An unprobable ship in a deepsafe is no different than cloaking, neither shows up on directional scans until it is too late. Guess that'll be the next campaign for the nerf brigade.
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